Player Spotlight Responses
Pete "Charlie Hustle" Rose - What Others Are Saying!
Final tallies on fan vote
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Hamilton - "What the Stats Don't Show"
I grew up 75 miles from Cincinnati and watched Pete Rose play his whole career. The one thing you're stats don't show is who was on base when Johnny Bench got those RBI's, and who was on base when Joe Morgan and Perez and others were batting. The whole truth about Pete rose was that he made all of his teammates better. His attitude at the ballpark has never been surpassed by any other player. These who are ate up with the fact that Pete Rose should not be in the hall of fame, in particular Bench, should remember that Rose is a big reason that they are there. Anybody who does not think Pete Rose should not be in the Hall of Fame is just plain stupid. These records that he holds are a testimony to his desire and ability. You are right in saying that he was not as talented as some of these players, then I ask you why do they not have records that he has. You will find Pete roses name on the all time list in several categories and these categories are the one's that make the teams he played for winners.
Remember that Stats do not tell the whole story. Remember the words of his manager, Sparky, "the best damn ball player I ever coached."
When you compare players don't leave out runs scored in you're figures. With out runs scored the games can not be won. You're comparisons will take on a different look when you do this.
- "Endurance and Stamina"
Pete is the all time his leader this requires stamina, endurance, as well as a little luck to stay injuy free. Pete also had two consecutive games streaks in the "several hundred" to "one thousand" area.
Foster had a couple of good years, but not a solid hugely productive career. Sure he hit 50 plus dingers once..so did Brady Anderson, and I don't think HE should be in the Hall. Maybe in the Cincy Reds HoF,as I'm sure Brady will get in the local B'more HoF.
Tony Perez...Mr. Clutch, Mr RBI..yes, definatley int the Hall, and I believe he already is.
DeLuca - "Never A Sportsman"
Pete Rose may have been a great baseball player, but he was never a sportsman (just ask Ray Fosse), and would probably be in the HOF by now if he had just admitted what he had done and apologized.
Borits - "Ego"
One glaring fault of his was his ego. If he really cared for the game as much as he says, he would not have done what he did. He probably did do it thinking that he was Rose and what of it.
Garcia - "Out for Good"
He bet on baseball and should not be reinstated.
Zeller - "Innocent Until Proven
I do not believe Pete Rose was found guilty beyond the reason of doubt. I always felt he was sacrificed. He was a great player and should be recognized for it.
Field - "Put Him in for the Sake of
All I have to say is this: No his HR's and RBI's don't match up with those of the other players mentioned. But he wasn't a power hitter. Look at hits, runs, doubles, walks, and BATTING AVERAGE when you decide if "Charlie Hustle" should be allowed into the Baseball Hall of Fame.
- "Pete's Done His Time"
Not that I necessarily condone the actions of Pete Rose, which ultimately led to his banishment from our game, however let's face it: what the major league owners and players did a scant five years ago [1994 player strike] was not exactly balming ointment either.
Statistics do only tell a certain part of the story and there is no statistic that can gauge the way in which Pete played the game; his record that surpasses Ty Cobb, allegedly another less-than-fine fellow but a HOFer, is the benchmark by which his enshrinement should be judged. Besides ballpayers like Foster and Perez, consider Ron Santo, Ginger Beaumont, and a score or more of others who deserve recognition but may never achieve same.
Pete's done his time. Shoeless Joe and Buck Weaver have also done theirs. Let'em back into the fold and recognize them for what they did on the field.
- "Let He who is without Sin, Cast the
Whatever Pete Rose did to hurt the game by gambling is done with. He has paid the ultimate price a Pro Ball Player could pay, he has been humiliated in front of his fans and family and the children to which he was a role model. I feel his debt has been paid. He was one of the greatest ball players....and his talent has earned him the right to be entered into the Hall of Fame.
Dickson - "Rose had Heart and Soul of
How does one measure heart and soul? People can argue the pro's and con's all day (No pun intended) about his stats. But what about what he gave to the game as a player. He wasn't the biggest, or the strongest man to play the game, yet he played as though he was. In the age of the long ball, he simply gave us base hits and hustle on the basepaths, and we, as fans loved it. Pete Rose played to win, even if it was a meaningless game such as the All-Star game. Sure, Pete was an average fielder, but at least you knew he tried to make the play. I can't say that about too many players today, and actually believe it. Pete Rose gave 110% of himself, 100% of the time!
Mock - "Unquestionably, Rose Has the
Credentials to be There"
Yes, Rose hurt baseball with his gambling, and no, he should not be inducted into the HOF unless he is reinstated -- but this is a moot point since he CAN'T be elected without being reinstated. However, since you said to overlook the gambling issue and, instead, focus on his stats, then unquestionably Rose has the credentials to be there. There are two fallacies to your argument about why he does NOT deserve to be in the Hall. First, your rankings are skewed since they rely so heavily on slugging percentage (slugging pct makes up half the score for both OPS and TOTAL average), and Rose was not a home-run hitter, as the others in your comparison tend to be. Second, he played on arguably the best team of all time, with multiple Hall of Famers.
So it seems that your argument is that he doesn't have HOF credentials because he was a lead-off batter and because he had stellar teammates. That doesn't make sense. Using that criteria, then a number of great Yankee players should be removed from the HOF since they (a) they weren't sluggers and (b) they had fabulous teammates.
And what about Rose's other accomplishments? He drove in over 1,300 runs, usually from the lead-off position! And since he never played with a DH, the bottom of the order *including the pitcher* was always batting right in front of him. Also, I admit he was no great infielder, but as an outfielder he was excellent, well deserving of his gold gloves. As a baserunner, he also excelled. In fact, I clearly remember reading articles from the 1970s where Rose was repeatedly voted the "best baserunner" in baseball by the other players. I think they would know what they were talking about. Also, I don't see "runs scored" as one of your selected statistics, either.
And, oh, by the way, Pete Rose had more hits than any other player who ever wore a Major League uniform.
It's obvious his on-field accomplishments warrant his inclusion in the HOF. But he won't be there until he admits his mistake, shows remorse, and is reinstated by MLB.
Venitucci - "Pete Has Served His
I think Pete has served his time for gambling. I think that he belongs in the HOF as a player, but that he should NOT be allowed to manage or run a MLB team (neither should Bud Selig, but that is another topic entirely). Pete was wrong for betting, despite his protestations to the contrary. The evidence is overwhelming. But, he has paid for his crime. If baseball is allowing convicted criminals to play for and run major league baseball teams, then Pete Rose should be in the HOF.
Olds - "The Player I Would Chosse to
Build My Team Around"
Your assertion that Pete Rose wasn't one of the top 3 players on his own team during the 1970's is one of the most inaccurate claims I have ever read. In looking at your table comparing Pete with Bench, Morgan, etc., I notice you do not even include offensive categories that are most favorable to Rose. Namely, hits, doubles, and triples.
I believe Pete Rose was the best player on the Big Red Machine. He's the career leader in at-bats, hits, 200-hit seasons, singles...and is among the leaders in runs scored, .300 seasons, doubles, and total bases.
If you ask me which player I would choose to build my team around, I would choose Pete Rose every single day of the week. Period.
Put him in the Hall alongside all the other drunks, gamblers, and whoremongers.....
Studer - "... nothing he has done even
compares to the atrocities commited by Cobb"
Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker were both accused of throwing the last Tigers game of the 1919 season, the same year of the "Black Sox" scandle. The evidence was overwelmingly against them, and mysteriously disappeared. Ty Cobb, as everyone know, was not the nicest man to ever strap on a glove and spikes, and infact once used his spikes violently injure a handicapped fan. Many people look at Rose as being much the same after the play at the plate that ended the career of Cleveland Indian, Ray Fosse. Rose has more hits than Cobb, and yet nothing he has done even compares to the atrocities commited by Cobb. By the way, both Speaker and Cobb are in the Hall...
Bryant - "Rose is overrated"
I think Rose is overrated as a player.I'm not a big fan of longevity.I might not want him in the hall even if he wasn't guilty of gambling.
Fan - "Prove it in court"
Was anything ever proved, in court, that Rose bet on baseball? Don't Americans believe in "innocent until proven guilty'? Whatever he may or may not have done, his record should stand alone. Send Pete Rose to the HOF.
- Better Person Than
Pete Rose is arrogant, abrasive, and morally repugnant. BUT ......... For baseball to deny his accomplishments as a player is utterly ridiculous. He's the all time hits leader and therefore must be put in the Hall of Fame. Come on already! I'm tired of discussing this issue. What's baseball going to do? Pretend he doesn't exist? Give me a break! If you want to continue his ban from baseball for gambling, that's fine, but he belongs in the Hall of Fame! Does anyone really think that he's as bad a person as Ty Cobb?
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